Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 2:20 am

I have shot IMR 4831 for years in a 300 WSM with real good results.
Why switch? I dont know I even will switch but i got some reloader 17 to try in it.
I run 180 gr Ballistic silver tips.
24' barrel
federal gold medal 215m
I am trying to acheive 3100 fps with this bullet and be accurate. Why? Well you know how we are...more is always almost enough.
Alliant is hitting 3082 fps with 66 grs of reloader 17 using a speer BTSP
Anyone tried this combo and hit the 3100 mark? Anyone hit the 3100 mark with a different powder and 180 gr bullet?
Thanks
P.S.
One thing I wont change around is the bullet.

Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 6:50 am

QuickLoad shows the Alliant load to be about 5K psi overpressure. To be certain, you gain 100 fps, but to what end? You'd want to work up carefully, and even then you wouldn't necessarily see pressure signs without a strain gauge. Using the BST and the Alliant charge, pressure is projected at almost 10K psi over SAAMI standards. Using RL17, I see 3000 fps as max without generating excessive pressure. Sixty-three grains of RL17 is projected as max with the 180 grain CT BST.

Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 6:52 am

I am trying the exact same thing and just loaded up some test loads to see what it does in my rifle. I saw that Alliant recommended 66gr's of the powder and it fit really nicely with a 180gr AB. Then I saw some QL data where that load is over the 65K PSI mark.. I imagine it should work just as nicely for your 180 BT. My goal is really to get 3000 out of the 180 AB. If I get more, well, that'll be some icing on the cake. It does seem like RL17 is a great powder for the 300WSM. I am also running RL19 with some other test loads. I will be getting out with them in the next few weeks, so I am looking forward to others opinion of the loads. Good luck if you are able to hit the range. I will be looking at your results pretty heavily. Scotty

Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 8:17 am

Scotty/ 300WSM, I've been loading 67.5 grains of IMR4831 with a Federal 215M primer and a Sierra 180 grain Pro hunter and getting 3030fps out of My Kimber. Very accurate load for me with no pressure signs. This particular load is not max and it may just be my rifle. I've tried 66 grains of RL17 with the same bullet and got 3184 which was definitely too much. (what a surprise when I touched that one off). Didn't do that again. I've tried IMR4350 and RL22 but didn't get the results I was looking for.

Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 8:26 am

One other thing, I have a friend with a custom .300WSM wearing a 26 inch barrel and with 180 grain partitions he is hitting right at 3200fps with certain loads. I tried to get the info from him but he was somewhat hesitant and advised that it 'worked well in his rifle'. I'll keep at him for some information.

Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 8:32 am

Anyone can get 3100 fps, or 3200 fps, or even 3400 fps with a 180 grain BST. However, the axion still holds--there is no velocity gain without pressure increase. Maximum chamber pressures are not set arbitrarily; rather, they are set based upon physical and metallurgical limitations to ensure safety.
If the purpose of handloading is to gain velocity, we should each be shooting a 7.82 Warbird, or a 300 RUM or some other large capacity cartridge. However, unless one is able to afford to replace barrels with boring regularity, or pay for surgical repair of hands and heads following catastrophic case rupture, it is wise to work within stated pressure limits. The slight gain in velocity seldom translate into useable ballistics. It is an exceptional shooter than is capable of taking advantage of a velocity gain of less than three percent (with a concomitant pressure gain of fifteen percent). Lest someone should question my post, I have concerns for the average shooter's ability to recognise signs of excessive pressure until they are in trouble. I do not doubt the abilities of most of the fellows posting on this site, but I do wonder about the ability of many who self-identify as new hand loaders.

Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 9:17 am

Doc, your points are very well taken. When I first started loading I did a lot of reading into the do's and don'ts but talking with someone with a lot of first hand knowledge makes a world of difference. case head measuring and all the other aspects of reading pressure are a great help but you still have to learn all the other tell tale signs, some of which can't be deciphered without a strain guage, which is the reason I adhere to the manuals even if their conservative, and I still watch for pressure signs.

Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 12:36 pm

I am new here so I will try not to be too sarcastic..but ..
Doc,
We in the reloading community follow the rules of too much pressure is never a good thing. Seasoned reloaders know the signs of too much pressure and what to look for. It has been done for years even without one of those fancy whatever you call it gauges.
From now on I will make sure to start and end my question with a disclaimer.
To save me from typing it all over again..SAME QUESTION, at NO ILL PRESSURE SIGNS

Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 12:55 pm

Doc, the question wasn't about a Lazzeroni or one of the huge Rem's. The question was about hitting 3100 fps with a 180 gr bullet out of a 24' barrel oh and of course at safe pressure since i forgot to include that thing we all follow in the original post.
There is a lot of published data out there with velocity very close to 3100fps. Did my question really warrant an extreme example you replied with?
Moreover, one of the fun parts of reloading is making everything work together and the ultimate result of it all at a safe level of course.
I am way too busy and have reloaded way too much to get into a saftey debate with you let alone anyone else. I certainly didn't come on the forum to have a run in with the reloading police.
Also, shame on you for assuming or treating me like I am part of a crowd that automatically assumes companies low ball the data so they dont get in trouble with the mindset,'well a ruger (or fill in the blank) will hold together if we go way over the listed data'

Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 12:56 pm

300WSM,
I am certainly sorry that you are disturbed. I do not know you and I have no knowledge of your level of expertise. I do know that some who frequent this forum are new to hand loading, and they have been swayed by claims made by people who purport to know what they are doing. I do seek to be cautious, just as I hope you do. Your sarcasm, however, is not becoming.

Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 1:52 pm

BRM,
Did you get pressure signs with the 66 grs of reloader 17 or just noticed a recoil jump?

Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 11:07 pm

WSM brass is notoriously tough, so it won't necessarily show pressure signs very well. Outside of a strain gauge, trying to guesstimate pressure is an exact science at best, black voodoo at worst.

Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 11:17 pm

I tried Re17 in my 300wsm and did get to 64.5gr before I got flattened primers and stiff bolt lift. Also I did not see alot than 50fps increase over my current load of imr 4350.

Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 8:13 am

300WSM, I got hard bolt lift and a real shiny case head. RL17 worked fine till I got to max. I also did not get the accuracy I like to see and for that reason stayed with IMR4831. Accuracy was well under an inch with the IMR4831/Fed 215M combination.

Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 6:44 am

I have been loading 180 gr. Hornady SST's with 66 gr. of RL17 in a Savage .300 wsm. I have been shooting 1/2 MOA at 200 yards. I got a chrony for Xmas and have only shot 3 rounds through it and they were: 3058,3079 and 3093. I have seen no flatening of primers or sticky bolt lift. This is going to be my go to deer and elk load with Hornady Interbonds when I can get them. Don't know whats going on, but everybody is out?? Also shot an 8' group at 500 yards with this load. Adjusted scope up 7 MOA and was about 5' high. the wind was kicking up pretty good and the group was horizontal.
Joegun

Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 9:09 am

I was hoping to reach 3000fps with a 200grPT out of a 24' 325wsm.
Some things just arent meant to be (safely)
No matter what powder I tried, pressure signs always started showing up at around 2850.
ramshot hunter did get me over 2900 - but the accuracy wasn't as good as others.
IMR4350 was the most accurate but at 2710fps
RL17 yeilds 2880 and moa, so that is what I am currently focusing on.
RL17 shows its potential best with light for caliber bullets, if you were shooting 150gr slugs then I would say RL17 is your huckleberry! But with 180's all you can do is try, let us know how it goes!

Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 9:21 am

300WSM -
I load for the 300 and tried R17 for the 180AB. This is in a custom built rifle on a 700 action with a 24' tube. The rifle did not like 17 for the 180 grain bullets and pressure signs showed up at 64 grains of R17 with velocity at 2970 average for 5 shots and unsatisfactory accuracy. The rifle likes R17 for 150 grain bullets and gave .5MOA groups. Every rifle will be different and what works for me might not work for you.
I have hand loaded for over 30 years and don't claim to be an expert, but one thing learned through the years is a few fps difference doesn't always make the best round for hunting or target shooting. The tone of your post to Dr. Mike makes it sound like you have the answers needed without the help of someone who has shot and worked up loads for more rifles and calibers than most of us will ever see. Nosler and any of the other bullet manufacturers that have manuals, don't produce data to make their bullets under-perform. There are physical parameters that we all have to follow in load development or we pay a price.

Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 6:59 pm

Am I back in school again or back in jail? I can't tell the difference.
Mr Ackley where on earth does my post sound as though I have all the answers? I read, re-read and nope. Still don't see it. Oh and I didn't realize text had sound.
I did however respond to the implication and assumption that I am a newbie to all the world of reloading or worse yet care free. I get lumped into a certain type of crude care free reloader based on what? EXACTLY.
I have recieved private messages to beware of certain people and things on here and don't get baited into debates from comments..exactly like this.
Back to the important thing..the subject.
With the accubond being very similar to a BST, 180gr bullet,
what charge did you start at? What primer ?
Lastly in your experience with Reloader 17 have you noticed a big variance in pressure with changing temperatures. (one of the things i have read is the high resistance to temperature changes on this powder.

Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 9:42 pm

Why don't you buy a 300Wby and quit pushing the 300WSM beyond pressure limits? You want more, then step up!! Oh, I am not Dr Mike, and I don't care for your rants, and I don't think you know much about much of anything except what you read and I don't believe you have read enough nor have a lot of experience at the loading bench. Frankly, I think you are dangerous to yourself and anybody else that might have the misfortune of shooting next to you at the range. I think you are at best a novice who hopes to convince folks you are an expert. I don't believe you and anybody who would load over pressure and just because he has no signs in his opinion with his brass or primers and assumes he is not over pressure shows he does not know much. I am not at all impressed with your risk taking. In fact I have just put you on my ignore list, just so I don't have to take the time to write a book to point out your errors.

Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 10:35 pm

Bullet,
HOW IS anything that was asked a danger?
They were all legit questions WITHOUT being dangerous.
You don't know what I'm about and certainly can't read and compute the subject at hand.
You will make your life on all fronts a whole lot better if you don't assume everything about anything. I promise ya it will be better.

Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 8:57 am

'I am trying to acheive 3100 fps with this bullet and be accurate. Why? Well you know how we are...more is always almost enough. '
Please don't include me in the 'we' group above With all the experience listed, then researching the web and the loading books should have shown that there are NO LOADS out there recommended by anybody with that velocity level. Pursuing that level in the face of the data indicates a willingness (whether stated or not) to venture into dangerous territory for the sake of velocity. There was no ('and doing it safely' disclaimer in the original post) I think that is the reason for some of the responses.
If I come up with a load for anything I'm working on that exceeds the max velocities published anywhere, my first thought is that pressure must be too high, whether or not I am seeing any of the standard pressure signs without a strain gauge. If I were loading 180's in a 300 WSM and actually hit 3100 fps in a standard length barrel, I would back off!!
Elkeater2

Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 9:11 am

Man, elkeater, you sure said that a lot better than I did, I totally agree, well put.

Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 5:38 pm

The debate just continues. Amazing.
So because book 'A' has a velocity of 3087 fps..
and book 'B' has a velocity of 3060fps..
Mind you book 'A' is using brand x testing barrel and book 'B' is using brand y testing platform
those resulting numbers must be set in stone. Correct?
The only thing set in stone are the numbers published in charge weights and the pressure they got from that specific testing platform.
Oh and lets not forget to mention that a powder lower velocity combo might even have higher pressure.
Different rifles do different things with the same exact load. Certainly as much as you sound off on here you do know that.?.
Having said that I'm not implying that with any rifle you are going to see a jump of 100 or 200 fps faster than the published data using the same load.
It was a stupid question if anyone was hitting 3100fps 180gr bullet with reloader 17 in a safe fashion yet thirty thousand posts later we are still slapping hands with rulers.
It was not a question asking for charge weights over anything plublished. It was NOT even a question asking for a charge weight of any kind. Did you understand it that time? Thanks

Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 5:52 pm

Could you say that with just a little more emphasis? Hey, lighten up now and let it go, I assure you we have. Happy New Year and I do hope it is a good one.

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:41 am

300 WSM,
EXACTLY?
Your attitude EXACTLY!
You have a lot to learn kid..
The fellas here have many more years of experience AND are willing to share it with anyone here for the asking.
We don't have to agree on everything nor do we all drink the company kool aid. What we do expect from everyone is to be respectful.
The way I see it you can either tone down your sarcasm or leave.
FWIW, this is not baiting.
JD338